Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + mempak

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Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + mempak

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:25 pm

Sorry, no alternate upscaled version this time - only unfiltered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P73S8ftIO2I
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:17 am

It looks really nice, despite all those issues. Maybe should I buy this game on ebay, if it doesn't cost too much..? :)
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:39 pm

Snowstorm64 wrote:Maybe should I buy this game on ebay, if it doesn't cost too much..? :)
The DreamCast version is the definitive version unless you specifically want 3 & 4 player splitscreen.
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:38 am

Well, I don't own the Dreamcast, so I will look, obviously, for the N64 version. Thanks anyway. :)
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:50 pm

Snowstorm64 wrote:Well, I don't own the Dreamcast, so I will look, obviously, for the N64 version. Thanks anyway. :)
There are two PC and PS2/GameCube/Xbox versions as well that are essentially a port of the DreamCast version (though the first PC version lacks multiplayer while the second PC and the PS2/GameCube/Xbox versions lack the "Catacombs" track).

Note however that the Xbox version has an issue where your save can sometimes be corrupted, and the GameCube version can have some performance issues in multiplayer unless you run it via Devolution or Nintendont (or Dolphin with CPU clock override enabled).

Lastly, the N64 version runs a bit slower than all other versions (including the original arcade) for whatever reason:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-KoHt10XHk
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:11 am

Hmm...after examining all the options, sadly I can only get the N64 version or run the PC version on Wine if I want to obtain Hydro Thunder in a legal way. I would get it for Gamecube, but...unfortunately it wasn't released in Europe.
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:29 pm

Snowstorm64 wrote:I would get it for Gamecube, but...unfortunately it wasn't released in Europe.
So you don't have a Wii?

I mention this because Devolution, for example, actually requires you to have the disc anyway, but works with any region disc.
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:04 am

Oh, I haven't thought of that way! Import games are a bit expensive here, but it's definitely doable. N64 or GC version, it goes on my to-buy list then! :)
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:55 pm

Snowstorm64 wrote:Oh, I haven't thought of that way! Import games are a bit expensive here, but it's definitely doable.
The only thing is that it *will* reformat your memory card...unless you use the emulated memory card, in which case it will still reformat but it'll essentually be reformatting a separate memory card.

Also, I presume that you already have a homebrew-capable Wii?
Snowstorm64 wrote:N64 or GC version, it goes on my to-buy list then! :)
So just to clarify, is it safe to say that you don't have a PS1, PS2, or PS3 as well?
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:34 pm

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote: The only thing is that it *will* reformat your memory card...unless you use the emulated memory card, in which case it will still reformat but it'll essentually be reformatting a new memory card anyway.

Also, I presume that you already have a homebrew-capable Wii?
Correct. As for the memory card, no problem, I'll just use one of many Gamecube memory cards I have.
Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote: So just to clarify, is it safe to say that you don't have a PS1, PS2, or PS3 as well?
Correct. I couldn't afford more than one console by generation back then. And I didn't regret my choices nor I do now, it happens that I just love Nintendo's games. :P
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:53 pm

I really should have clarified - while Devolution does requires the disc, it still requires you to rip the game to an ISO as well. Basically it plays the game from the ISO file but it still needs the disc in the drive the first time you launch the game.

The alternative is to just directly use Gecko OS isn't much more than a region-free disc loader with cheat support.



Well before you officially decide on the GameCube version, I'd like to mention that there's several other more minor differences between the N64 and the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version of the game other than graphics, speed, and frame rate:


1. In the N64 version, as you saw me do at the beginning of every race, there's a way to get a 4+ second boost while also getting what the game calls a "super start". There's a second way as well to get a 4+ second boost at the start, but it instead results in what the games call a "Hydro Jump" and is nowhere near as quick of a start.

In the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version, the first method does not exist - you can only get a 4+ second boost at the start via the slower "Hydro Jump" method.


2. On the N64, you accelerate with the A button and brake with B; on the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version you accelerate with the R button and brake with the L button. For me this is much less preferred, but luckily Devolution supports Classic Controllers/Pro, Wii U Pro Controllers, PS3 controllers, and wired Xbox 360 controllers.


3. The timing and triggering of when the music plays seems to almost be "Off" at times compared to the N64 version.


4. Loading times are quite a bit worse on the GameCube version...though using Devolution pretty much eliminates that.


5. Remember, the the GameCube version does not have the Catacomb track nor does it have 3 & 4 player support.


6. I believe the AI and gameplay difficulty is harder in the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version vs the N64 version.


7. I believe you have to re-enter your initials and/or name every single time you get a fast time for the GameCube version (as you saw in the video, this is not necessary in the N64 version).


8. The DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version has no music playing on the title screen nor on the main menu.


9. The title screen for he DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version just has a black background and has no "attract mode" demo either.



Personally I actually feel that the N64 version is more "polished" than the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version, but the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version is obviously technologically better.




Lastly, this isn't about Hydro Thunder but for Rush 2049 (which is included on the same disc):

Unlike the N64, DreamCast, and PS2 version of Rush 2049, the GameCube version has multiplayer save profiles tied to each controller number. This means that, if player 1 creates the save profile named "Herp" and player 2 creates the save profile named "Derp" but then both players 1 and 2 do not actually select those profiles, player 1 will not even have the profile "Derp" listed for selection while player 2 will not have the profile "Herp" listed for selection.
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Snowstorm64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:16 pm

Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:I really should have clarified - while Devolution does requires the disc, it still requires you to rip the game to an ISO as well. Basically it plays the game from the ISO file but it still needs the disc in the drive the first time you launch the game.

The alternative is to just directly use Gecko OS isn't much more than a region-free disc loader with cheat support.
It doesn't matter, I'll just use whatever is needed.
Nintendo Maniac 64 wrote:...
Thanks for the comparison, but this only adds more doubts for me. I mean, I don't mind if one version is graphically/technically better than others or not, I care more about playability and "polishness" (therefore I'd be more inclined towards the N64 version, despite the lesser difficulty), but also which edition is more appealing to me (that for the same price, more or less, I could get the GC version with not only Hydro Thunder, but also Rush 2049 and others). I'm also concerned about the "slowness" of the N64 edition compared to other versions, because the PAL version could make it even worse. This shouldn't be a problem for me, because I'm used to 50 Hz frequency and to the fact that usually the games lack any optimization for it, but there are exceptions to it. To me, for any racing game the slowness is less acceptable because it makes the games less fun to play...I dare you to do a time trial in Rainbow Road in Mario Kart 64 PAL, I dare you! :P
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Re: Video [2016-10-15 multithread] Hydro Thunder: audio + me

Post by Nintendo Maniac 64 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:48 pm

One strange thing about the PS2/GC/Xbox version is that your game data isn't actually saved unless you quit via the start button pause menu; note that the GameCube version of Rush 2049 also has a separate in-game pause menu with more settings accessible via the Z button.

Oh, and the N64 versions of Hydro Thunder and Rush 2049 take advantage of the expansion pak; it simply provides enhanced graphics for Hydro Thunder but for Rush 2049 it's required for Track 6 and is required for the in-race background music.

Snowstorm64 wrote:this only adds more doubts for me.
I know, I just want to lay out all the differences I know of.

...speaking of which, I also forgot to elaborate that, because Catacomb is missing from the GameCube version, the bonus tracks unlock in the order of Nile Adventure -> Castle von Dandy -> Hydro Speedway; it's reversed in the N64 version (with Catacomb unlocking before Hydro Speedway).

And random tidbit - the voice-over clip when selecting "Hydro Speedway" is different on the N64 version (it sounds better I feel). Also there are animated flames above the words "Hard" for the track and boat select screens.

Snowstorm64 wrote:also Rush 2049
Yeah, there's differences in that game as well:


The N64 version has fully customizable controls...though they don't actually get applied automatically on game boot-up - you have to manually view the controls menu for it to actually apply (this is presumably a bug); by comparison the GameCube version has no custom controls at all, though using alternate controllers via Devolution helps that issue.


The actual music in the N64 version of Rush 2049 is completely different from the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version, though it shares a few songs. Like Hydro Thunder, Rush 2049 has no music on the title screen but it does have an "attract mode" demo as well as music on the main menu.

I personally prefer a mixture of the songs from N64 and DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox - N64: Title & Main Menu, Track 4, Track 6, race results; DC: Track 1, Track 3, Track 5; I like the song for Track 2 on both N64 and DC.


There's a bug in at least the GameCube version where a custom sound effect volume setting does not get applied unless you actually view the audio menu.


There's a random rare bug in at least the GameCube version where the in-game music will play "out of order" somewhat on the first race track, like after the portion of the song from 20 seconds to 22 seconds it'll then play the portion from 18 seconds to 20 seconds, then play 24 to 26 seconds, then 22 to 24 seconds, etc. This can be fixed by simply viewing the audio menu and/or changing the song and then changing it back.


In battle mode, the "energy bolt" shot from rail gun weapon is white on the GameCube but green on the N64.


In the second race track, on the N64 there's grass on the area located under trees between two boost arrows on the ground; on the GameCube there's pavement even though the trees are there but it still acts like grass.


In battle mode, when you score a point, the "scored point" animation stays on-screen in the N64 version much longer (it's nearly instantaneous on the GameCube version).


N64 version only supports 2 players in "Single Race" mode but supports 4 players for stunt and battle mode; DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox support 4 players in all modes.


GameCube version has a bit of slowdown with 2 players in "Single Race" mode and 3-4 players in "Single Race" mode is pretty much unplayable due to constant slowdown; stunt and battle mode do not have these issues. Running the game though Devolution completely eliminates any slowdown with 2 players in "Single Race" mode and makes 3 players in "Single Race" actually playable (though slowdown can still occur); 4 players in "Single Race" mode is completely unplayable even through Devolution and probably would require something like using the Dolphin emulator with "CPU clock override" set to the largest value.


Frame rate is considerably better on the DreamCast/PS2/GC/Xbox version than the N64 version, especially on the 3rd and 5th tracks; this difference in frame rate is more than it is for Hydro Thunder.


Load times are quite a bit worse on the GameCube version, but playing via Devolution pretty much eliminates that issue.




All in all I'd say, when played through Devolution, the polish of the GameCube version of Rush 2049 feels better than the N64 version largely because of the frame rate improvement. Without Devolution it depends how sensitive you are to load times, if "Single Race" multiplayer is important, and/or your opinion on using R/L on a GameCube controller for accelerate/brake ..


Snowstorm64 wrote:I'm also concerned about the "slowness" of the N64 edition compared to other versions, because the PAL version could make it even worse.
I could take a look, especially since I know how to turn an NTSC mempak save into a PAL mempak save.



EDIT: Even though the Expansion Pak improves the graphics for the N64 versions of Hydro Thunder and Rush 2049, it does not increase the render resolution - they still render at 240 progressive (compared to 480 interlaced for the GameCube version - the game doesn't support 480 progressive).
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