Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Discuss miscellaneous N64-related matter here.
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Kerr Avon
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Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Kerr Avon » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:23 pm

I know it's early days yet for the Oculus Rift (and for CEN64, of course), and so we don' know what the hardware will be capable of, but I was wondering what you thought of CEN64's chances of being able to use the OR, or similar hardware?

http://www.oculusvr.com/

I'd personally love to be able to play Perfect Dark and Goldeneye via 'virtual reality' style goggles, though I don't think it will be possible for a while. Maybe a long while, since I've heard that the OR people say it will need around 120fps to make the OR feel 'real' and seamless to the human-mind, as otherwise a slower refresh rate will cause motion sickness in people. Now I know that CEN64 will need a very powerful PC to give true N64 performance, and even then it will be way under 120fps (by a factor of six or more with some games!), but (and let's assume for arguments sake that Perfect Dark gives 20fps on a real N64, though of course it can go way below it, especially with multiplayer + four humans + eight sims + explosives) if PD running on CEN64 on a decent PC did give 20fps, then could you not send each frame of Perfect Dark out six times to the Oculus Rift, so that PD's framerate becomes 120 instead of 20, even though of course PD is still running at 20fps, and the '120fps' is really just 20fps padded out with five repeat frames for every newly refreshed game frame? Or is the problem, as I think it is (but I hope it's not) that the Oculus Rift needs 120fps of movement, and not just a jerky 20fps that's padded out with repeated frames to make it into '120fps'?

Still, even if N64 emulation isn't practical to use with the OR in the near future (well, unless you want headaches :o ), then hopefully in ten years time, when PCs can run CEN64 fast enough to give 120fps, and Oculus Rift type goggles are then everywhere, then we can play PD using them!

krom
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by krom » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:36 pm

Hi Kerr Avon, I was recently at a developer conference showcasing lots of Indie games using both old & new oculus hardware, also at the show I got to try out the PS4 Morpheus...
I was thinking how cool it would be to use that hardware to play N64 emulated games etc & just saw your post, so I had to reply with my point of view on the subject:

1. Any 3D effect is just an offset in a 3D cameras X position, to match the offset of our eyes viewing the world.
The N64 uses the RDP to display triangles, these are essentially 2D triangles using slope data, which in turn has been converted from real X,Y,Z data from the RSP
It would be impossible to offset the camera using just the RDP data, but we could essentially run 2 cen64's at the same time, with specific in game hacks to offset the in-game camera code to be correct for a 3D view on VR hardware.

2. If we made an HLE RDP GFX driver for cen64, the real X,Y,Z positions of the triangles & the camera position would be available to us, to be able to just run 1 cen64, and make a stereo mode using a shift in the camera X offset.

Obviously number 1, would only enable a front view only approach to viewing the N64 3D world, but I think number 2 could yield a full look around experience, would be fun to try =D

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Kerr Avon
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Kerr Avon » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:03 pm

Krom, thanks for that, you make some good points (and clear enough that I can follow the technicalities, unusual for me!). You mention the Sony Morpheus, which I've not heard a lot about. How does this compare to the Oculus Rift? I take it they both will have open source drivers, to allow developers and home-based hobbyists to add functionality and compatibility to the hardware?

How did it feel using the goggles? Did it feel smooth and 'life-like', or was it jerky and/or looked/felt strange and constantly reminded you that it was just a trick being played on your eyes? I take it the headache and eye-ache inducing problems have all been sorted out?

krom
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by krom » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:28 pm

Hi Kerr Avon,
Kerr Avon wrote:You mention the Sony Morpheus, which I've not heard a lot about. How does this compare to the Oculus Rift?
I preferred the Oculus Rift for sheer 3D feeling but it is early days for PS4 Morpheus (I only got to try the "Shark Tank" demo on Morpheus), both the new Oculus & Morpheus are of a very high resolution e.g I found it hard to see individual pixels like the old Oculus hardware.
Kerr Avon wrote:I take it they both will have open source drivers, to allow developers and home-based hobbyists to add functionality and compatibility to the hardware?
Well I doubt the PS4 Morpheus will have open source drivers provided by Sony, but I am sure the hacking community will make them available, as it will be the cheapest available VR headset.
Oculus has loads of development help: SDK's / Source Code etc...
Kerr Avon wrote:How did it feel using the goggles? Did it feel smooth and 'life-like', or was it jerky and/or looked/felt strange and constantly reminded you that it was just a trick being played on your eyes?
It felt amazing, turning the head smoothly matches the view, the 3D effect is stunning, stereo headphones on the PS4 Morpheus gives 3D sound that matches the view.
Kerr Avon wrote:I take it the headache and eye-ache inducing problems have all been sorted out?
People at the show were reporting feeling sick/unwell etc! I felt great the whole time, so it might suit some people better than others.

Hope this helped to answer all your questions =D

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Kerr Avon
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Kerr Avon » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:04 pm

Thanks for the replies, mate, now I'm even more keen to get my hands on one! First person shooters, and first person explorers (such as the Metroid Prime games, or Mirrors Edge) could be absolutely incredible with 3D goggles. I just hope our older, favourite games, can be made to work with them.

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Patashu
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Patashu » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:49 am

Probably the best emulator to ask for Oculus Rift support in is Dolphin. Dolphin already has a free camera mode where you can move the camera around in any gamecube game and it renders the way the scene looks from there.

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Kerr Avon
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Kerr Avon » Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:10 pm

Patashu wrote:Probably the best emulator to ask for Oculus Rift support in is Dolphin. Dolphin already has a free camera mode where you can move the camera around in any gamecube game and it renders the way the scene looks from there.

Wow! That sounds amazing. Does it work in literally any 3D game (for the Gamecube/Wii), or only games that run on certain engines?

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Patashu
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Patashu » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:53 pm

Kerr Avon wrote:
Patashu wrote:Probably the best emulator to ask for Oculus Rift support in is Dolphin. Dolphin already has a free camera mode where you can move the camera around in any gamecube game and it renders the way the scene looks from there.

Wow! That sounds amazing. Does it work in literally any 3D game (for the Gamecube/Wii), or only games that run on certain engines?
I know it works in TWW and Luigi's Mansion.

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Mizox
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Re: Will CEN64 be able to use the Oculus Rift (or similar)?

Post by Mizox » Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:04 pm

Patashu wrote:Probably the best emulator to ask for Oculus Rift support in is Dolphin. Dolphin already has a free camera mode where you can move the camera around in any gamecube game and it renders the way the scene looks from there.
it's already possible to hack in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoz1UJ8Mu4w just not a standard feature of the emulator

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